The Nonprofit Leader's Guide
We want to bring you the thoughts of some of the most impactful leaders in health and human services. Their real-world experience in driving growth and impact and leading in hard times might be just the extra dose of motivation and common sense you need to bring to your organization whether you are an Executive Team member or the Board President. We think that leading the conversation about the nonprofit business sector and what nonprofits should think about now is part of our mission, “Building A World that realizes the boundless potential of all people.”
Our purpose in this podcast is to make your mission, our mission.
The Nonprofit Leader's Guide
Beyond Good Intentions: Building Sustainable Nonprofit Organizations
"Criticism is the cost of entry to success. Most people aren't willing to pay it." This powerful quote sets the stage for a compelling conversation about why nonprofits must embrace business principles to thrive in today's complex landscape.
Our expert panel features Chris Wolf (COO at I Am Boundless), Rich Yanoski (Corporate VP at Merakey), and James Button (President/CEO of Citizens Advocates) – seasoned leaders who've navigated both for-profit and nonprofit worlds. Together, they dismantle the persistent myth that compassion and business acumen can't coexist in mission-driven organizations.
The conversation tackles head-on why nonprofits are sometimes perceived as "well-intentioned but not well-equipped" to operate with rigor. Our guests argue that effective leadership requires holding tension between passion and pragmatism, making tough calls while staying true to mission. They share practical frameworks for evaluating opportunities, knowing when to invest resources, and recognizing when to walk away from initiatives that aren't creating sufficient impact.
Marketing emerges as a particularly crucial yet undervalued function in the nonprofit world. As James notes, "There are people who think marketing is an added expense or perhaps a perk or frill, and it really isn't. It's foundational to what we're doing."
Whether you're an executive director, board member, or emerging nonprofit leader, you'll gain valuable insights about developing stronger business cases, leveraging data effectively, and building organizations that combine passionate advocacy with disciplined operations. As Chris reminds us, "Mission impact is our profit" – and maximizing that impact requires both heart and business savvy.
Subscribe now and join us next month when we explore the power of storytelling to achieve better visibility and attract donors, clients, and partners to your cause.
Scott Light Jr. Hello everyone and welcome. We hope that you joined us for our three-part series on nonprofit mergers in June, july and August to really set the stage for our new podcast, the Nonprofit Leader's Guide by Boundless. If not, be sure to listen on Apple, spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you love our episodes, please drop us a review. That'd be great as well. I'm your host, scott Light.
Speaker 1:Before I get to our guests, I also want to give you this little teaser. We're going to have what we call a mission moment from CEO Dr Patrick Maynard coming up at the end of this episode, so please stay tuned for that. Over the next year, we want to bring you thoughts from some of the most impactful leaders anywhere on health and human services. Their real world experience in driving growth and impact and leading in hard times might just be that extra dose of motivation and common sense that you need. Whether you're on the executive team or on the board doesn't matter. We think that leading this conversation about the nonprofit business sector and what nonprofits should be thinking about it's really now part of our overall mission. We say this a lot here building a world that realizes the boundless potential of all people. So let's get into it with today's guests. I've got some great experts for you. Chris Wolfe is a seasoned executive in healthcare and human services, currently the chief operations officer at I Am Boundless. Chris has previously held significant roles too, including a member manager and owner of TIL Consulting and COO at ViaQuest. His expertise encompasses behavioral health, developmental disabilities and strategic partnerships. Rich Yanowski is Corporate Vice President, strategic Business Development at Merikey. He's been a professional in various service industries for more than 20 years and in his current role Rich has responsibility for all strategic development, mergers, acquisitions and organic program development for Meraki in Pennsylvania and also in 12 other states. He also oversees strategic growth and development of NHS's management company and its offering of services. And James Button is with us as well. President and CEO of Citizens Advocates, st Joseph's Addiction Treatment and Recovery Centers and also the Fieldstone Foundation. He holds master's degrees in education and clinical social work from State University of New York. He is focused on improving access and elevating convenience to life-saving addiction and mental health treatments across the greater Northeast United States.
Speaker 1:Welcome to all of you. It's good to see you. Good to see you. Thanks for having us. Let me give our listeners a little bit of background here, gentlemen, because I pulled a 2024 article from philanthropyorg and it was titled why Nonprofits Need to Adopt a Business Mindset. So here's one thing that I pulled from this piece and it goes like this quote criticism is the cost of entry to success. Most people aren't willing to pay it. Nonprofits tend to stick to what's comfortable, but comfort rarely leads to greatness, end quote. So I would love to start the conversation there from all three of you, to get your reaction, your perspectives, on that very line. Chris, do you mind starting us off?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a great quote. I think it's a little ironic just picking up on that first sentence there. Advocacy can often feel a lot like criticism right, when we're advocating on behalf of folks, we are basically highlighting or trying to spotlight something that's not quite right or something that needs to be improved within our communities typically, and that's how a lot of nonprofits started, either recently or even decades ago, like our mission, 40 years plus. So the irony is that the place where many of us got started, that place of advocacy, is a place that really spotlighted an issue that was, in the community, right and basically identified and criticized that we could do more and better.
Speaker 1:James, what do you think about that? Criticism is the cost of entry to success.
Speaker 3:I think it rings true Whether you're managing, operating nonprofit programs or working in another business sector, we need to stay far from timid and we need to embrace and in fact, run towards criticism, because when we fall too in love with our ideas or we're too passionate about a concept, that can cost us in the long run. So we, as leaders, again, regardless of the sector, we need to embrace criticism, we need to be in search of criticism because it refines our point, it shapes our business plans and it helps improve our ideas.
Speaker 1:Rich. What do you think?
Speaker 4:I actually think it's interesting because I think the quote actually encompasses my experience in transitioning from a for-profit environment to a non-profit environment 20 years ago. The requirements from the environment that we work and operate in right now were criticized during my evolution in this industry from the resources needed to provide integrated health or understand all the data elements that go into our contracting, or requirements for the quality of life for the individuals we serve, the size and magnitude of organizations that have the ability to invest in those and look a little bit different than historical nonprofits were criticized over my time period and now have almost become an expectation in the reality of the environment that we live and operate in.
Speaker 1:Rich, let me have you pick up on the next thing that I pulled from that article, and it went on to make the case that short-sightedness is a common issue with nonprofits and, along with that, an acceptance of mediocrity.
Speaker 4:I can understand that point. I would almost see it from my perspective that short-sightedness is part of the endemic aspects of this industry, where most individuals have evolved from a certain space and a certain background and kind of work experience and history, and it creates a similar lens that a lot of management and leadership individuals in the nonprofit sector operate from. I do believe that the expansion into bringing individuals with different lenses from other industries, which would be similar to what for-profits might do, really helps to eliminate some of that and create a more broad perspective on what it takes to be successful in the industry that we operate in.
Speaker 3:Maybe we need to start a little bit higher level before we speak about nonprofits being potentially short-sighted. I mean, let's acknowledge the elephant in the room that nonprofits historically have had this weird reputation. I mean, I think a lot of people see us as well-intentioned but not necessarily well-equipped to run with rigor and make tough calls in business discipline again seen in other sectors. Even the word nonprofit kind of sends a mixed message. It suggests that we're here doing the good work right, but it also connotes this softness or lack of willingness to make tough calls and those qualities like selflessness and doing good work and being compassionate, those are real and they're valuable in our industry. We should never change that about ourselves. But caring deeply, being compassionate, does not equate to being short-sighted and it doesn't prevent us from running with discipline, focusing on quality and definitely driving performance.
Speaker 2:I like that. I like that, james, and what Rich had to say. I like the fact I do believe there is an expectation or a lowered expectation. So that's part of the challenge, right, there is just sort of what people are expecting, though I also agree with Rich's previous point, which is those within the industry, those who are contracting, those who are payers, have much higher expectations. But I think it's from the outside to James's point. It's sort of like what's the expectation? It's just the do-gooders trying to do good.
Speaker 2:But I'll take it a little different direction and just say I think that ultimately, mediocrity is a leadership issue and I think it stems from the inability to hold on to tension. The best way to know if you are talking about something that's important is that you feel something, that you have an emotional response to it good or bad, super excited, joy, intense energy, all the way to dread, sadness, fear, whatever it is. Those are probably really important things that are happening, because that is our body's way of saying hey, this is something really important and as a leader, you have to hold on to that tension, right. But if you're not having these feelings throughout the week, you're likely not doing the work that's necessary, you're probably doing pretty mediocre things or you're probably just doing the same thing over and over again. That's comfortable, right?
Speaker 2:So holding that tension and understanding when to release it, when to hold on to it longer, is a critical element of any leader. You can certainly quickly dispatch a tense issue or tense matter, but not really resolve it. And the same with euphoria, you can continue to lean into something that's making you feel good to the point of just ran off the cliff. It was a horrible idea at some point, but you kept going with it, right. So to me, mediocrity really is about leadership, and I think that's another level of sophistication that we're finding within the nonprofit world is that leaders for nonprofit agencies are taking that acumen seriously, taking that understanding of leadership to a different level.
Speaker 1:Chris, I love what you said about telling a story that makes people feel something. So, james Rich Chris knows a little bit about my background. I was in journalism broadcast journalism for almost 30 years and I was asked all the time and then, since I left that business, what makes a great soundbite, and my definition of that has really never changed. It is about taking a data point. That has really never changed. It is about taking a data point but giving it human impact. That also rolls up into storytelling, which I think, which you definitely touched on there, but getting into the storytelling, that's the part I love.
Speaker 3:And again, I tell my clients these days, if you're not telling your story, somebody else will. Yeah, as leaders of nonprofit organizations, we need to be expert storytellers because that's how we convey our message with influence and impact and totally resonate with what Chris is saying and what Rich has said today. Chris was talking about delivering messages with emotion, evoking emotion. These are all key characteristics that are requisites of leaders these days, but I think it's also pairing that off. I think when we're developing business plans or when we're trying to approach regulators, maybe even financiers or board members, we have to share a message with passion, but also demonstrate a cool, calm, stoicism as we approach business decisions. So it is a real balance there. We need to be expert storytellers and we need to evoke emotion, but we also need to balance that with delivering business plans and making business decisions with a cool, calm, collected thoroughness.
Speaker 4:I agree.
Speaker 4:I mean, you know, for me personally, the storytelling and the impact is why I transitioned into this industry 20 years ago after 10 years and as for-profit a for-profit of business, as I could operate it.
Speaker 4:And I think the unfortunate thing is, unless you live it and see it and are inside of it every day in organizations like ours, you don't understand the impact, and I do think even from the. We have to do it verbally and visually, because the resources we have to do that from a marketing standpoint and so on and so forth, are limited because of you know the world we operate in and our funding sources and margins are in all situations aren't necessarily what we would aspire them to be and it's based on the environment we operate in. So I do think the ability to have that impact and that you know, emotional intelligence aspect of what we do and again, from my perspective, there's nothing more impactful than seeing that and living that on a day-to-day basis. But again, I think it's something that we do struggle with in our industry to be able to paint that picture for those that are external to it.
Speaker 1:Speaking of impact, I'm going to pull one more thing from that philanthropyorg story, and there were several recommendations listed in that story. I want to tick off a few and then from this little list I've got about a half dozen or so. I'd love to get the perspective from all three of you on some of these, or maybe it's all of them or a few, that really resonate with you. A couple of recommendations here Take risks and embrace the criticism which we've talked about. Building a strong brand that gets to your story, which we've talked about. Treat marketing as an investment. Reward results, not just participation. Build resilience with your team. Leverage outside talent and then build a strong planned giving program. So out of that list there, james, why don't you start us off?
Speaker 3:I'll just begin with one of the first treat marketing as an investment. As an industry, we have some catching up to do in and around marketing and, as Rich mentioned, resources are tight. I think that nonprofits started on shoestring budgets. We're still trying to be fiscally austere, responsible stewards of the funding that we receive. And there are, let's face it, there are people in our industry, there are people in the community who think that marketing is an added expense or perhaps a perk or a frill, and it really isn't.
Speaker 3:It's so foundational to what we're doing. It's so foundational to what we're doing we need to tell our story, but people need to know that we're there and marketing isn't just an added expense or potentially a luxury. It's really, it's key, it's business critical to getting the word out there and helping reach people and bringing more people into care and helping people to understand that once they're in care, they're. These are all the resources that we have to offer available. So that really resonated with me, really spoke to me, because I think it's a issue that we as an industry have yet to confront fully and there's a wide variety of perspectives on it.
Speaker 1:Chris jump in.
Speaker 2:Sure, yeah, there were a couple that definitely popped out at me, but I'll pick one.
Speaker 2:It's been a new mantra for me or a new way I've been trying to think about it.
Speaker 2:So, number seven build a strong planned giving program.
Speaker 2:I bring that up because, as a nonprofit and having worked on the for-profit side for a while as well to me, I've started to think about philanthropy and giving as sort of the venture capital of nonprofits, right, so there's a lot of folks that invest in order to get profit in for-profit companies that do the types of work that we do, we have the advantage of being able to raise money. That money is the same kind of attitudinally to me is the same as venture capital. Now it works a little differently. I'm not sure we can get as much as venture capital might put into a for-profit organization to get profit, but even that, maybe that's again another way of sort of tilting a little bit and saying in the old traditional nonprofit, where people are giving, and so if you look at that as the means towards investment, if you look at that as the means towards enhancement and augmentations and ways to improve your mission, it just might be a different, more modern way to look at it that this really is the venture capital associated with a nonprofit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, chris, if you go out and get a billion dollars in VC, I don't know if Boundless will be able to hang on to you. Yeah, rich, jump in.
Speaker 4:Sure, from my perspective just to pick something different, a couple that jumped out at me the reward results, not just participation.
Speaker 4:I look at that from a twofold lens One as the struggle from an employee population to really make employment engagement and really create value for the individuals that we recruit and try to retain, to make sure that we're structuring their experience with us to where they have the opportunity to expand and grow, not just financially but career-wise, geographically-wise, service-wise, into other areas from an employee base and an individual standpoint based on their efficacy and their results.
Speaker 4:And also, you know, one of the things I think goes back to some of the earlier conversation about how nonprofits have been looked at the historical situation where individuals take contracts or perform in a certain geographic area because they've always been there or it's historical, I think, an expansion of really our funding partners and the individual organizations that we work with to really reward results, not just from a value-based contracting standpoint but from an open-mindedness to allow other organizations that might have some different ideas on how to create the most appropriate program for an individual to improve their quality of life that maybe doesn't exist on the fee schedule that they currently have to be kind of open-minded and willing to commit to a process to think differently and expand that, and the other for me, is to leverage outside talent for competitive advantage.
Speaker 4:I think you know one of the benefits in our organization and being one of the larger ones in the industry is that we've been able to recruit individuals from a wide variety of background and have some of those administrative resources that really help create, you know, a best-in-class sort of thinking that you know maybe looks a little dissimilar than it did 20 years ago in our industry but really has created, you know, a platform for us to expand and differentiate. You know how we see the world and maybe how we, how it impacts, how we operate in it.
Speaker 1:Rich, you hit a good point and in fact we covered in a couple of episodes ago bringing in outside talent to again bring in just some outside thoughts, some different perspective that can help you know the entire organization. So that's a very good point there. Chris, why don't you start us off on this one? How can nonprofits develop those stronger business cases going forward? What are those key elements that nonprofits should be thinking about?
Speaker 2:clearly have a good understanding or a handle on their mission. Right, they probably can repeat it. They probably say it backwards, forwards, all that but how many of them have really developed a strategic plan? Again, as we start bringing in more business acumen? Not that strategic plans weren't done in the past, but I can.
Speaker 2:I'm old enough to remember that a lot of times when a strategic plan was being developed, it really was about creating a new mission and vision for the next five or 10 years, and it was something you did with boards. It wasn't something you necessarily did with your operation focused on how do we plan to expand our mission into our communities, what communities need us, what are communities saying about us? All those different things. So how do you develop strong business cases and pro formas? We start off by understanding what everyone's getting behind. Where are the gaps in the community that you basically have committed yourself to? Where are your strengths, where are your challenges and where can you make the biggest impact?
Speaker 2:Business cases you know, I think it's a matter of getting in front of folks and making sure you've got a business case that is both reviewed by folks from your finance department as well as folks, maybe from your operations as well as people, maybe from revenue cycle. So that's the other thing is good pro formas and business cases have multiple kinds of professionals involved. Kind of taking it at different angles and I think someone else said it earlier, you know the passion and the emotion around why we get up every day to impact our communities drives us, but the work that you have to do to then execute and implement is very sobering. Right, it isn't something that you are just, you know, bouncing off the walls and saying this is the best pro forma. You know it is hard work, but it's the passion that you have for the impact you're going to make that allows you then to have that sobering moment with the professionals that have the different perspectives, to sit down and develop a very proper business. You campaign in poetry but you govern in prose.
Speaker 1:And you know, because both of those things are very, very different, very true, James. Chris wrapped his comments. You know his strategic thinking around mission. Where do you land here when it comes to making that strong business case for nonprofits?
Speaker 3:Well, I just wanted to follow up. I know we've already spoken about this balancing act that we have to perform where we don't lose our emotion and we appropriately focus our passion but we still come off as credible. And you know, one of the things that Chris was talking about is is trying to trying to temper that emotion in business planning because, like when we fall in love with our ideas and we shut out those who tell us that they think it might not work, the result is often less than optimal and unfortunately, it's painfully apparent to our colleagues, those in the industry and, more importantly, the communities we serve. So, you know, for us we try.
Speaker 3:If we have like a bold new idea, the first thing we do is find people to criticize the idea we're talking about criticism today Find people who will beat that idea up for you, with you, so that you can decide whether or not it makes sense. But, even more importantly, we start and end at what's the best thing that can happen as a result of this business decision and what's the worst. Look, we live in a wild world, even more wild recently and you know strong plans. They account for best case, base case and worst case scenarios, if you know what the worst thing that can happen or what's the worst case scenario financially, reputationally, even organizationally and you have a plan to deal with that or you can live with that, then you're going to be in a better position as a leader, not only presenting that business plan with confidence, but executing on it as well.
Speaker 1:Go ahead, Rich.
Speaker 4:Yeah, from my perspective, it's really not an option, it's a must, you know, especially in the current environment that we are in. I mean, we know as nonprofits in the human services, healthcare industries that we operate in, there's pressures. There's federal pressures that are coming, that are going to increase, that are going to force us to be the absolute best that we can be, and part of that is is operating like the best businesses in the world. And that means, whether you're a fortune 500 company or a nonprofit, that you have to optimize your resources, you have to have business practices that are lean and you have to have human capital and other capital that you are investing and utilizing in the most efficient way possible. Because those pressures exist, I mean, just as any other organizations, whether you're a nonprofit or for-profit. It's not about chasing that profit.
Speaker 4:In our area of expertise and what we do, it's about ensuring that the services that we provide are sustainable and replicable and scalable to the point where we can impact as many individuals that we can to improve their quality of life and make their life as most meaningful. Reinvest in our programs, recruit, you know the type of staff that we need to do that and deliver the best outcomes for the folks that we serve. And to me again, kind of going back from my entrance into this world 20 years ago, those were almost looked at dynamics that were in opposition to one another and my belief has been then, and still is today, that they're in alignment and that you give the individuals you serve the highest quality of life. You give the employees that work with you the highest quality of life. You produce the best outcomes by doing the things from a business standpoint that allow you the resources and ability to do that.
Speaker 1:Let me ask a two-sided question here. So one about when should nonprofits, you know, really go after that next opportunity? How do they determine if that's worth pursuing? And then the flip to that would be when should you walk away from what you thought was an opportunity?
Speaker 4:I would answer your first question and I would say always as long as you have the resource capacity to do the analysis on whether that next opportunity makes sense for you. I mean, the landscape in the world that we live in is changed dramatically and from that perspective, organizations, as you see organizations used to be our funding partners now also be providers and funding partners. You see the expansion of healthcare systems and federal qualified health centers to include aspects of service that 10 years ago that they didn't deliver but do now. So you see that landscape changing and you see the pop-ups with the CVS and the Amazon and all those individual competitive landscape changes.
Speaker 4:I would say you always pursue the opportunity if you have the resources to do it and from that standpoint, that opportunity should be aligned with the clear goals that you have in mind in your strategic planning process. So you have to make sure they align with your mission. You know from the jumpstart. I mean I think the aspect of it is that they should be data-driven and I think that's a change in our industry that maybe didn't exist as much, you know, when I first came into it, but now as organizations become more sophisticated and the data drives, not just the outcomes, as we see in some of the relationships we have. But the data should drive your scenario planning, your sensitivity analysis, your business plan development. So that's how I would answer that Make sure that you know that the landscape is changing and you're pursuing different avenues to kind of continue to grow and develop your service profile. Make sure it aligns with your mission and your strategic plan.
Speaker 1:And Rich to that very point. On the flip to that question, do you, let's say, the data does change in this ever-changing landscape? You've got some sunk costs in there. When do you pull back from what you thought was an opportunity?
Speaker 4:I mean I think that's, that's a that's a very uh, individual organization based decision. I mean we, you know there's, there's aspects of that is, is there another organization you know, depending upon the financial impact and the sunk costs and the the negative roi, are there other opportunities for the individuals you're serving in those programs to receive services in a different way? Is your funding partner open to considering it in a different way? Is there another organization in that geographic area that is maybe more expert in that service that you could have a conversation with about transitioning effectively those individuals in that service to them? You know what's the administrative cost component of that service and if it's absorbing an administrative cost that's maybe higher than the actual program loss and there's a continuity of service from the continuum, then maybe you continue to run those programs.
Speaker 4:I just think there's I don't think there's a hard and fast answer about when you kind of close and walk away from a program. I think as long as you have a discrete practice in your organization through your both financial and quality analysis to ask and answer those questions, then I believe like the culture of your organization will be the aspect that decides when you make that decision. I think where organizations I've seen fall into a really negative situation and come to talk to us about how we can potentially help them with that is when they haven't, along that path, been asking those questions and taking those points of consideration into account.
Speaker 1:James, I can see you were nodding a lot as Rich was talking there, so give us your perspective when to really get after an opportunity and then maybe when to pull back.
Speaker 3:Yeah, a lot of what Rich and Chris have said really resonates with me and I think at Citizen Advocates, when we're evaluating a business opportunity, we try to really keep it simple and in fact if there was an operating manual I think it would be good to great by Jim Collins. We call it the CA test, the citizen advocates test. But it's really four questions, four initial gates that we pass an idea, a concept through. That help us evaluate whether or not we should dig in and kind of start building pro formas and build support from the board and other key stakeholders. But number one is does this opportunity advance our mission? What will the opportunity allow for us to deliver our life-changing care to additional people or communities in need? Number two talk about this passion again, this balance. Are we passionate about it? Like? Are we excited about this passion? Again, this balance Are we passionate about it? Like, are we excited about this opportunity?
Speaker 3:Just because something's available doesn't mean it might be right for us. We try to only step into situations when the work connects directly to our mission, like we need to be excited about it. We also want to deliver a proficient service. We want to be able to do something and do it. Well, we want to do justice by it. So we ask ourselves are we proficient in this area of care delivery?
Speaker 3:This one matters a lot because if we don't have the expertise or the infrastructure or even the credibility to deliver it at a high level, like will we take a step back and say, should we be doing this? And then again, bedrock kind of decision can we do this sustainably? And, like Rich was saying, some organizations come to us and they're in a spot where they're not able to deliver a service sustainably. So I don't want to say that we will only look at business opportunities or expansion or growth opportunities that are sustainable, but we need to be able to get our hands around the problem, the drivers, the economic drivers, the care required and determine whether or not those services can be sustainable, kind of under our umbrella. So advance our mission. Are we excited and energized about this? Can we do service? Can we offer this with a quality service? And then, is it sustainable? These are really the four core, four questions that we call the CA test.
Speaker 1:Okay, chris.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think. I would only add maybe talk a little bit about sunk costs. I think Rich and James did a great job of sort of how you take a look at it and just the multiple reasons that might go into it, just so many different reasons why you might pursue an opportunity, right, and I think they've covered most of them and certainly the need for it to meet some need, meet the sustainability, impact, the mission, et cetera. As far as sunk costs, I guess I would just quickly say that a lot of ways that we talk about it at Boundless is if we do not have a sustainable program, right so it's losing, doesn't make margin, doesn't cover expenses. We take a look at that and we try to understand is this where we want to invest our dollars? Right, so we are trying to make impact to community. And so part of that analysis is saying well, this is a program for four people, six people, 10 people a year. How many people are impacted by it? What community is impacted by it? Are there other community providers that are doing work here? Right? So we take it very seriously, just like I think probably all of us, not all of our programs are, quote, unquote profitable but they create benefit, right. But each time that you look at those, you have to understand this is where we're investing our dollars and are we making the biggest impact, both to ourselves and our organization, as well as to those communities. It's an investment, and so we have those hard conversations.
Speaker 2:You might have a team somewhere, you might have been there for two years in that community and you're like we don't seem to be catching fire here. We don't seem to really be getting what we thought was going to happen here and, more importantly, it's a drain on resources that seems to be impacting. You know only a few folks. I will say that we also make a habit of if we pull out of somewhere, you do it the right way. A lot of times you'll have agreements that are 30-day notice, things of that nature. That doesn't work for people's lives, right? So you, when you, when you decide to hang it up, you are finding the partner who could take this on. You are talking to those folks that are impacted. You are going the extra mile. Quite honestly, you don't just leave town.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about success here a little bit and what that looks like really at the ground level and beyond.
Speaker 2:Chris, you can maybe cite a story from Boundless or another nonprofit no-transcript, because everyone's siloed right, Everyone's got sort of what they're trying to do for the kid and they've got how they can do it and in the end they needed a provider that was sort of across the board, right. We were non-denominational, we were supporting the person. They came with all these other things and we took care of all the things that need to be taken care of. That was a moment that I remember our board chair getting behind. I remember all of us saying this is a huge need.
Speaker 2:There had been many, many stories with regards to families that had adolescents still at home, not adults, but they were in that phase where they were going through adolescence.
Speaker 2:They were becoming larger, they were becoming more challenging to meet their needs.
Speaker 2:Some were becoming more physical with regards to those natural supports in the home. Some were becoming more physical with regards to those natural supports in the home and there was lots and lots of stories about kids having to go out of state then because there weren't providers within Ohio that could support that, and the challenge with families who want to stay connected with their loved ones, trying to connect with them, you know, out of state, let alone if it was somewhere other part of Ohio, which is a fairly large state. So we took that on and said you know, this is something we need to do. This is a gap in the community. We are going to figure out how to make that work. Probably didn't have all the answers, but we felt we had the right partners on the public side, we had the right team internal to boundless. We had the support from the strategy and the passion, if you will, from our board, and what we've been able to do is interesting things and new things over the last six, seven, eight years now.
Speaker 1:Fantastic James. How about an example of success?
Speaker 3:Sure, we can speak about an example of success internally, but also want to just give kudos to other big agencies in the sector that are leading the way.
Speaker 3:You know, I think we're still fresh on the Brightly Centerstone announcement last month. You know, both of these organizations are very large organizations in and of their own right and both of them could have easily remained independent, but they realized that working together they were able to, like, amplify their impact and reach more folks and probably mitigate additional risk. So you know, we just applaud that union, that merger, as a solid business driven approach and we're seeing examples of this pop up all over the industry. You know, no longer are we, you know, looking at scrappy kind of shoestring budget, grassroots advocacy efforts. The industry has matured where it is expected that people are making decisions on the best interests of their business and what's in the best interest of a health and human service entity the ability to create and amplify their impact. So we see a lot of this in the sector and we just wanted to call it out those people who are making a difference.
Speaker 1:Rich. How about an example of success from you?
Speaker 4:I think, one that I would like to reference. I think it brings to bear both aspects of you know, kind of the dual aspects of what we've talked about today the impact on the individuals we serve as well as being a solid financial impact. About 12 years ago we noticed in our organization we had a very fractured and fragmented pharmacy delivery system to you know, probably about that time, about 40,000 individuals that we were serving annually. So we looked at it and we said there's got to be a better solution for that, for both a quality of care and quality of life standpoint, as well as potentially from a business perspective. So we searched and we looked around and we talked to folks. We ended up finding a small closed-door pharmacy that was located in the right geographic area with leadership that had the kind of right cultural mindset that we thought would be a good fit for us, and so we took that opportunity and we acquired that organization through our management company.
Speaker 4:We have had such an impact over that time on the integrated whole person care and how that pharmacy component and their EMAR is integrated to our electronic health record, and we've since added virtual nursing services where the nurses are fully integrated, and it's just had tremendous impact on our outcomes as far as our pharmacy-related outcomes and as far as our individuals in care, their quality of life outcomes. And it's grown where individuals within the walls of Meraki have chosen to utilize it as well, outside of Meraki where like organizations have utilized it to grow to a significant business that you know. We talked about before how the foundation and the plan giving gives back to the organization. Another avenue we take is create these kind of complementary or parallel businesses and stand those up and grow them and then they contribute back to the nonprofit side and are part of that giving to allow the continued growth and development investment in the nonprofit program. So I think that was one that served a dual purpose that we're very proud of.
Speaker 1:Let me see for my last question if I can paint a little bit of a picture here. So let's say the three of you are at a conference in a different state and a nonprofit executive comes up to you Maybe you've met this person before, Maybe they're a complete stranger, but they're not within your organization and that person starts to share a little bit more about their mission, what they do, but then has a real honest moment with you and says you know what? We're still struggling, and I'm struggling as a leader, to be more proactive on the business side. What would be your kind of first visceral piece of advice for that executive?
Speaker 4:My initial response would be you know, I again I think proactive is healthy. I think it's part of that kind of evolution I've seen in the industry. But I also think without the right data points and kind of foundation, it could be dangerous. So I would say, when you say proactive, are you talking about proactive related to your strategic plan and what you've developed and the kind of goals and mission that you have, that you've kind of set? And then I would say then I would.
Speaker 4:So my answer would be different based on that proactive without that kind of foundational piece, I would kind of maybe walk them back a little bit and talk about the things they need to do to ensure that the kind of aggressive, proactive steps that they want to take are in alignment with their mission and what they need to do. Again, I think, as I said earlier, take and review every opportunity, but make sure it's aligned with your mission. I would also say again and we've talked about this earlier, talk to as many people you can and bring in as many resources you can that have diverse and different viewpoints of the world that we operate in, or maybe the world outside of what we operate in, Because I think that's one of the biggest evolutions that I've seen in my 20 years of how many different people now operate in this space and historically, when I first started working in this space, everyone had that kind of social services government background and it's much more diverse now and I think that's created better organizations and better opportunities for the individuals that we serve.
Speaker 3:Yeah, rich, spot on. I agree with the data points and bringing in outside perspectives, but I'm going to take a slightly different spin on it. You know, one of the issues that doesn't get a ton of airtime and can really limit an organization is that we forget that great caregivers, clinicians, don't necessarily make great leaders without some development. And our field is full of talented advocates and clinicians that are rising into leadership roles, and that's a good thing for sure. But what made us great, what makes us great as caregivers, won't necessarily make us great as leaders, and you know like well, I'll give you an example. So, caregivers, we thrive off of compassion and discretion and support. Well, there are other skill sets that we need as well in leadership, like setting vision and holding people accountable and making tough calls.
Speaker 3:That may be deeply unpopular If we're not in the process. And by the time you realize it again you talk about proactive it might be too late. But if we don't begin now preparing these emerging leaders for these kind of shifts, things can really unravel. When we tap on these folks to be placed in key roles, boards lose confidence, teams feel unclear, even financial discipline slips. Financial literacy itself is important. So I think that our you know. My advice to a leader would be like you have the next generation of leaders probably within your organization right now that they're employed by you. Take time to give them exposure. Take time to develop them into your next generation of management and leadership. Don't necessarily fall for the trap that because they were an amazing clinician or an amazing team lead, that that's automatically going to translate into leadership skills to the conversation, I think, about the restaurant industry.
Speaker 1:You can have the greatest chef running the kitchen, but if he or she then tries to jump into ownership and if they don't have that perspective of running the front of the house and the back of the house and the whole house, then that restaurant is not going to make it, and the data proves. I mean, what is it? It's something like well over 50% of restaurants don't make it. You know, after that first year it's really, really hard. That's a great point. Chris, close us out here with a piece of great advice for that. Maybe a struggling nonprofit executive out there.
Speaker 2:All right, I'll try to keep it short and sweet. One. I think someone's already said this, but I'll say it this way Surround yourself with a team that compliments, not echoes, you right. So that's that ability to hear other points of view, get things from the outside, but surround yourself with a team that compliments you Know yourself. You need to have a group of folks who are not echoes, not echo chambers or mirrors of you. You will grow from that and you will have a better conversation around what you need to be doing for the business, right.
Speaker 2:Last, I'd say we've not really called it out specifically that we've referenced it several times about being more data-driven. If you're trying to be a proactive business, have a proactive business strategy. My first question is do you understand your data? You know mission impact is our profit and so, like for profits that count their money for shareholders, we need to be able to count and measure our impact for our communities. Can you do that? Can you be proactive and say this is how I solve this problem, this is how I've identified this problem, and that comes from data and data management.
Speaker 1:Chris James Rich. Thank you very much. This has been a great conversation and I'm sure our listeners are gonna get a lot out of it, so thank you again for joining us.
Speaker 2:Thanks, scott. Thank you, nice seeing everybody, you as well have a great day.
Speaker 4:All right, bye-bye now.
Speaker 1:Thank you again to all three of you. I mentioned our mission moment at the beginning of the podcast. Let's bring you that right now from our CEO, Dr Patrick Maynard.
Speaker 5:Over the years I've seen our mission come to life through countless stories of hope and resilience, and I'm pleased to share one of these today. So when I came to the organization about eight and a half years ago, it was called Franklin County Residential Services and the mission was about a page long. You'd think that that would be pretty precise, but, as is common in a lot of nonprofits, what that really is is just kind of not deep and a lot of words, but not really precise about what it is that we do and why we do it. So when we became I Am Boundless. A couple years later, we changed the mission to building a world that realizes the boundless potential of all people, and what that did is it opened up who we serve and how we serve them. So instead of just serving adults with developmental disabilities in Franklin County in residential services, we now serve people who have physical, mental, developmental challenges of all types across any geography and across all different kinds of services. So our mission has expanded and grown in almost a worldwide or universe-wide setting, and I'm so proud of how our mission has evolved to do that. So I want to talk a little bit about how our role has changed in enabling the mission, and I'm going to tell you a story about this.
Speaker 5:You know, a couple of years ago, when we came together with Koinonia in Cleveland, right after that, we realized that we had left out a very, very important thing, which was how do you pay people? You know, we just assumed that things were going to work out and our payroll system would just be enabled in that system and everything would be great. It was coming on Labor Day weekend and all of a sudden we realized that payroll was not going to go out to several hundred people all across central and northern Ohio. Well, instead of just sitting back and saying oh no, our leadership came together and realized we can't have people going into a holiday weekend without getting paid. We have people who live paycheck to paycheck and it just wasn't right. So we owned it, we owned that challenge and the mistake that was made cars and we drove all over the state personally delivering, you know, charge-enabled cards to people at their homes so that that weekend they had the money to make it through the weekend until we were able to fix the problem.
Speaker 5:And I think that's a good example of how we've changed in our leadership to reflect realizing the boundless potential of all people, not just the people we serve, but our staff also. So now I'm going to talk about the future of boundless and our evolving mission and what I expect to change and what I expect to stay the same and this is a really good thing to talk about, because there is so much going on with government policy and regulations and pay. There's a lot of angst out there about the future of our organization and I can tell you that what I expect in the future is more of the same. Boundloss has become an extremely strong, robust organization and resilient organization, and I can't say that we are immune to funding being cut and things like that, but we would never go out of business because of that. We would just right-size and keep moving forward. That's what we're about, that's what our culture is and that's what our mission is about is finding ways to go up around over and through and just keep doing it. Another thing that I would see is implementing technology for efficiencies, better ways to serve people, better ways to do our business With workforce shortages. We just can't keep trying, trying, trying to implement something that doesn't work if the bodies aren't there. So technology is going to be a big part of our future and I would see that as a way to better serve people and implement our mission.
Speaker 5:When I think of my role in terms of enabling the mission of Boundless, I think it is an ever-evolving and transitioning role, just as our organization is continually evolving and changing to grow on our mission to serve more people in better ways, leadership has to change accordingly.
Speaker 5:We have to be in front of that at all times and I think that is critical that I mentor and reflect that to the organization and to the people that I supervise, reflect that to the organization and to the people that I supervise and mentor in this organization. So I'm constantly out and about learning about new ways to implement leadership. I'm out and about learning about what is happening in the horizon and in the marketplace for our business so that we can stay ahead of that, and I teach that and mentor that to our leadership team. We are resilient. We are always in the forefront of things and trying to stay in front of what's happening before it happens to us, and I think that's the strongest forte, that is a forte of this organization that we are a leader, not just in Ohio and in our field, but nationally also, I'm Dr Patrick Maynard, president and CEO of I Am Boundless, and this is my mission moment.
Speaker 1:Patrick, thank you for that, and to you, our listeners, thank you as well. Hey, join us next month for a discussion on the power of storytelling to achieve better visibility, to attract donors, clients and even more partners out there. Until the next time, this is the Nonprofit Leader's Guide podcast, brought to you by Boundless. Thank you.