The Nonprofit Leader's Guide by Boundless
We want to bring you the thoughts of some of the most impactful leaders in health and human services. Their real-world experience in driving growth and impact and leading in hard times might be just the extra dose of motivation and common sense you need to bring to your organization whether you are an Executive Team member or the Board President. We think that leading the conversation about the nonprofit business sector and what nonprofits should think about now is part of our mission, “Building A World that realizes the boundless potential of all people.”
Our purpose in this podcast is to make your mission, our mission.
The Nonprofit Leader's Guide by Boundless
When Scale Becomes A Moral Decision for Non-Profit Leaders
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2026 isn’t just another turn of the nonprofit M&A cycle. The choices leaders make over the next few quarters can decide whether they’re steering their own strategy or getting swept into someone else’s plan, and that’s a very different kind of pressure than “growth for growth’s sake.”
We sit down with Chris Wolf (COO of Boundless), Rich Yanoski (VP of Corporate Business Development at Merakey), and Stacy DiStefano (CEO of Consulting for Human Services) to unpack what’s driving consolidation across mental health, IDD services, autism services, and more. You’ll hear why shrinking your way to stability can backfire, how partners may start evaluating assets instead of mission, and why an outside advisor helps leaders avoid blind spots.
Then we get practical about the forces shaping nonprofit sustainability right now: Medicaid uncertainty and HR1-related turbulence, limited funding appetite, and workforce shortages. We also dig into board governance: what strong boards ask, how to align on strategic fit and organizational readiness, and how to keep the focus on community impact rather than brand symbols.
If this conversation helps you think differently about scale, partnerships, or board readiness, subscribe, share with a colleague, and leave a review so more nonprofit leaders can find it.
Why 2026 Is A Pivot Point
SPEAKER_05Welcome everyone to the Nonprofit Leader's Guide podcast brought to you by Boundless. We're entering a real critical stretch here in 2026. And for nonprofit health and human services leaders, the next three quarters may define the next decade. So there are a couple of different uh narratives out there kind of competing against each other. So one says mergers are no longer optional. And then the other one says there's still a window for strategic choice. We're really going to dive into both of these today and some other narratives that are out there this year that again could really project in the years forward. Because as we move through the rest of this year, leaders won't just be deciding whether to grow. They'll be deciding whether they are leading their own strategy or being pulled into someone else's. I've got some great guests to talk about all of this. So let me introduce you to them right now. Chris Wolfe is here. He's in studio with me. He is COO of Boundless. Rich Yanoski is VP of Corporate Business Development at Merricky. He is also joining us again a second time. And so is Stacey DeStefano, CEO of Consulting for Human Services. Welcome to you all.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. Thank you.
SPEAKER_05Thank you. Um, Chris, let's start with you. You're you're two feet away from me here. So you get the very first question about the the narratives that I used in kind of the setup. Um, give us the state of play here. Uh, are mergers no longer optional? Or uh help us understand maybe that other narrative, there's still a window for nonprofits to have strategic choice.
SPEAKER_01Sure. Um, so I think there is still a window for nonprofits to decide how to merge and get acquired.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_01So how's that for an answer? So I I think MA is inevitable. Um, I think the complexity of our um system as a whole, social service and/or healthcare, um, I think that complexity, along with um just business challenges associated with inflation factors and and whatnot, make it incredibly challenging um to run a business at a small scale. Um, but I do think there is time for uh providers and agencies and organizations to be thoughtful about how they go about finding their partner. Um, most importantly, please be thoughtful about how to find your partner before you then have to find a partner. Interesting.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_01I'll leave it at that.
SPEAKER_05Okay. We've got plenty of time to get into it.
Is Consolidation Inevitable Or Chosen
SPEAKER_05Stacy, what do you think about those two competing narratives?
SPEAKER_02I totally agree. Um, and with a little nuance. So consolidation is happening across the country and across every service line from mental health to IDD services, autism services. You can't deny that's happening if you read anything in the news on LinkedIn and professional journals. If you follow what's happening politically, there's no denying that consolidation is happening. And it's happening led by a variety of different factors, which we'll get into. Um the and for me is it doesn't have to be merger, right? So it can be um anything under what I'll call the umbrella of strategic growth. So it can be a merger, which is two companies coming together to form a new one. It can be an acquisition where one company acquires another, it can be an affiliation where one company supports another through shared services and governance. So the way in which it happens is not inevitable, but I think the theme of what we're seeing in the industry of consolidation is absolutely inevitable.
SPEAKER_05Okay. Rich, what do you think?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I would actually agree. I mean, I know uh don't like to go three for three on this. I think the the from my lens, um, you know, I think it's Chris's point. Like there, there's there's probably a bandwidth or a magnitude that allows an organization to stay independent for some period of time both on based on its health and success and efficacy. You know, what that number is from a size and magnitude standpoint, I think is still kind of a moving target. But I do think, you know, as as Stacey said, um, the requirements of the industry um have changed so significantly uh over the my 25 years that I've been in it, that the the ability to uh achieve the scalability that the consolidation um affords you really allows you to invest in, whether it's tech to technology, experts in multiple services, um kind of the infrastructure, all of the components from an administrative standpoint that uh that we see the industry as a whole just moving toward over you know the last 25 years, but specifically the last five to seven. So inevitable is a strong word, but I think directionally that's where we're moving.
The Biggest Risks Of Waiting
SPEAKER_05Okay. If if that's the case, if strategic growth is inevitable, Rich, why don't you start us off? We'll come back around the horn for this one. What are the risks for leaders out there? What what if they default to a deal that that isn't so good versus say you mentioned infrastructure, versus say jumping in and and fixing some of those fundamentals first? So let's talk about risks.
SPEAKER_00Well, from my perspective, and in my years of doing this and kind of deal structure, deal analysis, the risk for leaders is waiting to a point in time where the their options or their choices are limited, or their value through the lens of whether it's a a merger, an acquisition, an affiliation, all the structures Stacey spoke to is just not the same through the lens of the uh the potential partner of the organization they're speaking with. I think the trend I've seen um more recently is that healthy organizations are having that discussion. And because of what we're speaking to today, it's an option they want to pursue, not an option they need to pursue. So I think that's the the the the risk factor. Um and I know that's hard sometimes. You know, folks have built organizations, they've they they've put their lives into them, and that independence and such is very important to them. Um and that and people always have a tendency to feel like they can fix anything. And this industry's hard. So a lot of folks have fixed a lot of things, but I just think it's being honest with yourself and your board um and your leadership team about kind of where we are and what the right point in time to have that conversation.
SPEAKER_05Okay. We're gonna talk about board involvement here in just a little bit too. Stacy, would you jump in on the risks?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I think the risk is a well-intentioned hero strategy where where a leader or a board, as Rich said, thinks we can do this on our own, we can go on our own, we don't have to, we have this niche system. Today we're financially okay. Um, that to me is the danger zone when you're ignoring the broader forces that are happening, because the reality is what got you here today in 2026 is not gonna get you to the next three to five years. And so ignoring the outside pressures, thinking that you can do this on your own, um that's the first thing that's a risk to an organization. The second, and this may sound a bit like a shameless plug, but I mean it broadly, um, if you're trying to DIY this process, that is gonna fail miserably, right? A strategic growth process, you need to walk through a structure, a decision lens with an outside advisor, even a company as large as Merrike, which is one of the largest in the country for all service lines. Rich and I have very regular conversations, um, as we do with Boundless as a retained advisor on the process. So no matter how big you are, no matter how uh how much your revenue allows you to have a team like Rich runs internally around your own growth strategy, you still have to have that outside lens to vet ideas or you have that risk of of keeping the blinders on.
SPEAKER_05Okay. Chris, you want to jump in?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um I I I think what Stacy said there, I want to definitely um I definitely want to highlight that I think context and dynamics, um, when you're trying to DIY it, in a sense you are you are missing perspective that is is so important. Um when you are sitting there, the forest from the trees, if you will, um you're just not gonna see things, you're not gonna challenge things the same way. Um so I I just think that's really, really a critical point that that Stacy said. I I'd also throw out there that I I think if you're an organization right now and what you're attempting to do is to reduce and retract in a way to make yourself more sustainable, right? So you're you've come onto a a bad patch, um funding dried up, or services uh started to be reduced, something that is basically um creating some some business challenges for you. And your thought is, well, how do we keep retracting, retracting, retracting so that we can balance, balance ourselves? I think you risk there at some point being evaluated for your assets versus your mission. As a nonprofit, the biggest thing you have is that that that um commitment and relationship with the community and with clients and with a high quality uh kind of service that you have. If you are in the process of rationalizing, pulling things back, changing that dynamic, if you will, you and Evelyn will be evaluated on your assets when you have your your hat in hand, as they say, versus being evaluated on your mission. Okay. And you want the latter.
SPEAKER_05Anybody else want to jump in on that?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I love that. And I have a friend who uh has a flower farm. And so I often talk to her, and I'm not an expert in gardening, but she often talks about pruning the right way. So I I think of that visual as Chris was talking, where there's a difference between pruning and cutting back or right sizing some services so that you can grow stronger in other areas. There is a difference between that approach to just kind of the slash and burn cut in the wrong part of the stem, and then you get nothing back and you have nothing of value as a result. So I don't think anyone has ever cut their way to growth success, but there is a difference between that right size and pruning to the slash and burn that that Chris is talking about.
SPEAKER_05Rich, you want a piece of that or we can move on? I just want to give everybody the opportunity to kind of chime in.
SPEAKER_00No, I I think we're I think I'm good from that perspective. I think we're
Funding Whiplash And Workforce Reality
SPEAKER_00fine to move on.
SPEAKER_05Hey, Stacy, I'd love to come back to something you said a minute ago and then hear from all of you. You talked about um challenges that are coming in the next three to five years. I'd love to hear from all of you what what are the top one or two challenges that you're that you know kind of well keep you up at night in terms of what's coming?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, well, what's already here, this this administration we have is a challenge from the first day it got here, uh, regardless of your political affinity, because of the whiplash that we've seen with policy, with funding taken away, with funding replaced the next day, with decisions that don't feel grounded in experts uh that have been doing this for a long time. So I think HR1 is the biggest thing that is looming with the January 1 start to implement some of those things, work requirements, Medicaid cuts, um, eligibility, verification, um, confusion, all of those things are real. And whether you're mental health or IDD, this is going to affect both sides of the equation. So I often mistakenly hear folks on the IDD said, well, we're safe because our folks have a disabled designation and they won't be impacted. I think what we've seen over the last year is everything is on the table with this administration, which then leads to what will the states do about losing a Medicaid match? And so if folks aren't understanding the implications of the state match in addition to the HR one, that is the next 24 months of a whirlpool. And we're gonna see kind of who ends up on the side swimming and who ends up down the drain on that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, agreed. So so let's just let's call that all of that funding, right? So there's the funding question. Uh not only changes to funding, but honestly appetite for funding. Um, you know, if if it wasn't for cuts, do we really anticipate that there'd be increases? Right. And so it definitely is a preferred to the cuts that happen with the bill. But nonetheless, I think we are seeing where um the cost, uh, the cost of living, if you will, um inflation factors, all the things that make it difficult for people to continue to put more and more dollars. So funding in general is where is it headed? We know what the the we know the the the bill that Stacy referenced, but then what's next, right? There isn't more money, there isn't more appetite for it. Um I'll do the easy layup and say um people. Um so not all states, but many states, and Ohio is one of them. Um there is an ongoing uh shrinking, if you will, of our population. Uh certainly if you look at age, uh there is a a uh uh shrinking of the of the sort of the workforce uh age group. Um now certain metropolitan areas um are seeing growth, um, but the overall state is shrinking. So that also changes that challenge of how are we trying to support folks in more rural or smaller counties? Um how do we deal with the the the glut of need in metropolitan uh spaces? Because it isn't just the folks coming to like a Franklin County or a Hamilton or Cuyahoga County to work, it's also people coming there for services, right? So I think workforce and sort of how that migration is occurring um is definitely something we're just trying to keep our hands around and track.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, Ohio is every state's unique, right? But Chris, to your point, Ohio is we're we're we're we're losing folks who who are leaving the state and maybe some suburban, exurban, rural areas. Um, our three C cities, Cincinnati, Columbus and Cleveland, probably gonna be okay. But I've also heard the mayor of Cincinnati say, hey, you know what? A lot of these Fed dollars post-COVID during COVID and post-COVID, they've dried up. And we've got to get our books in order, you know. And and so, yeah, there are a lot of unique challenges. Ohio's also getting older, so we we can factor that in. Uh, Rich, uh, to you on the question, um what what challenges, again, keep you up at night. What are what are the one or two top ones in your mind?
SPEAKER_00Well, I think we've addressed the top one. I think, you know, again, I think uh as Stacy eloquently said and Chris followed up on, I think kind of the current state of the state and what that looks like now and what the kind of immediate future looks like is something any organization in our space um from a strategic standpoint surely uh should be spending a good amount of time, not necessarily to react to or to say the sky is falling, but like kind of understanding the rules of engagement as they currently exist. And how do you how do you reshape that? I think one of the things I'll try and like actually combine the first two questions of kind of the the need for consolidation and kind of the state of the state right now. If you look at our organization, Merricky, as Stacy said, we're we're one of the larger nonprofit um health, human services, and education organizations in the country. And we actually we actually employ less individuals than we did six years ago. But what we've done is kind of taking taking the current state of the state because we're larger, because we have subject matter experts across different disciplines, but able to create like integrated service models and other mechanisms to deliver services to individuals that are most appropriate, and working with our funding partners and working, you know, with kind of our regulatory bodies to try and do more with less because of that and continue to grow as the organization has continued to grow, even with less staff because of the staffing shortage of the thing we've talked about and because of the changes. So to kind of anticipate and not just react, but proactively anticipate, you know, we had an expectation, you know, two years ago, uh if not an expectation, at least a plan, if things kind of evolve the way that they have, you know, how how do you proactively try and shape your future instead of just reacting to um, you know, the changes? I think the days of kind of going to meet with your Medicaid office and asking for a 25% or 50% raise to kind of whatever the current fee for service rates are, those days are gone. So how do you kind of bring the best minds together to kind of react to what the current environment is to kind of strengthen your overall portfolio of services and your organization as
Scale, Tech Investment, And Margins
SPEAKER_00a whole?
SPEAKER_05So let's also bring it back to uh let me uh let me take a mulligan there. Um let's also ground our conversation. We always try to in in reality in terms of what's happening and also some data points. Both the AGG analysis and some sector data uh point to several forces that are shaping MA in in 2026. Let me run down like three or four of them. Love to get your comments on these. Um financial strain, uh, so distressed providers out there, workforce shortages, technological gaps, and regulatory complexity, which we we've kind of talked about that just a little bit. Uh Chris, I'd love for you to start us off because I heard you on another podcast uh talking to some financial planners talking about workforce shortages and boy, what challenges uh they present.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um so workforce challenges, um I guess I'm trying to think. Tell me a little bit about specifically you're thinking with regards to how it is for recruiting or and retaining talent. Yeah. Okay. Um so with regards to workforce challenges, it it truly is um you know, we talked about trying to grow while you're also pruning. Um the way in which we tend to grow, at least at Boundless, is through those um uh entry-level roles that are highly trained, um, they're not highly paid, but they do such critical work. Um and and the challenge with that is that our competition isn't necessarily the agency down the street doing the same thing. It's actually Amazon or Target or some other sort of large organization that's able to provide somewhere close to $20 an hour. Uh, and unfortunately for some though I mentioned higher. Um, that is one of the huge problems we have is that our industry itself, even when we're maybe the top payer in our space, we are not necessarily just competing with our own space. We are competing with those entry-level folks. Um, retention then becomes an issue as well. Um, as I referenced, let's just say Amazon warehouse, very different day. I would say potentially less invigorating day than working with the folks that we support. But there's also a lot of challenges when you're working with the folks that we support. There's a lot of emotion and um a lot of things that you're dealing with throughout your day as an empathetic caregiver. Um, you sometimes also are having to deal with someone who's being very uh aggressive verbally or physically with you because of confusion, because of their own um, you know, potentially post-traumatic stress uh challenges that they're having, or anxieties, depression, you name it. And so there's a lot that goes into the day of somebody who's making 20 bucks an hour that works at Boundless or any of these social service agencies. And our big goal, I guess, if you will, or one of our challenges is to really find the folks, the right folks. This isn't just anybody, by the way. So you've got already a limited folks who can who can actually do this type of work and then find them, train them, and give them a great place that they want to come back to and do great work.
SPEAKER_05I can remember it's been a few years ago, but my when our uh younger son was in high school, he had a classmate, senior in high school, who had worked fast food all throughout his his high school days. And this particular uh fast food chain offered him an assistant manager's job. He was 17, and they offered him $65,000. I I you know, I I may would have thought about postponing college too with somebody to brought a paycheck like that to me at 17, but that gets to that competition.
SPEAKER_02Yes, plus free French fries, so there you go.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's right. Um, Stacy, what do you think about again, those uh you can pick up on workforce or the tech gaps, uh regulatory, financial strain. Um, talk about some of those challenges, if you would.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, look, all of them roll up into kind of zipping the zipper of what we're talking about at this podcast of scale and what scale gets you. And so when you think about Chris's story, when you think about, you know, technology investments, electronic health record, remote support, ERP system, HRIS, all the acronyms that help us on the back office side do our job, you need money to pay for those things. And, you know, we're not in a workforce crisis, we're in a workforce stasis. This is what we have. We are not going to be inundated with staff anytime in the next 10 years who want to come work for any organization around the country. That's just not the reality. And so one of the things that scale gets you is opportunity. So if you are a $10 million organization and you only have certain positions available, and you probably can't afford to invest heavily in a in a um a leadership development program or recruiting program internally, um, you're only going to get folks to stay a certain level. And then they're going to look to the larger organizations that have those things. So if you think about, um, just to be candid, the organization like Boundless, the organization like Merricky, and an organization that may be 5 million or 10 million in total revenue, there's very different opportunities for direct care staff and mid level manager training there. So scale isn't just about a number on the top line. And it's not just about being big for big sake. It really has to be about a more robust series of opportunities for the people that you want to recruit and retain.
SPEAKER_05Okay. Rich, if you want to jump in, please do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I would concur with that. I think, you know, when I came into this industry from a different industry in 2001, being a larger organization was looked at in a negative connotation. I mean, it really was. And I think the the evolution of our industry has been so significant that it it has changed to the point where, you know, again, define large. You know, is large 50 million, is it 100 million? Is it 250 million? Is it a billion? But the investment that needs to be made in the people that provide the services, in the in the technology, states are moving towards performance-based contracting in in certain markets that are having significant requirements on a kind of investment utilization and technology for the individuals. They serve the the ability to have an electronic health record that's integrated along your services and works for all this. Like these these are just the tip of the iceberg of the investments that need to be made for an organization, which all kind of fall within the construct of what you outline as kind of your bullet points there, that a a smaller organization just really in in many ways, shapes, or form, just doesn't have that bucket of dollars available to invest in that. So I just think I think as the industry changes, you know, what Stacy said is true, the the ability to provide a career path for your employees, the ability to provide the trainings and certifications and the things that are going to allow them to get the the to get the highest quality of of life from the job that they're performing, as well as providing the best services to the individual you serve, which is the ultimate goal, all that kind of is is is is more attainable as organizations scale and there that that aspect of consolidation is considered.
SPEAKER_05Rich, let me dive into that just a little bit. So can a and when when we talking when we're talking about um scale and value, can a small to medium high performing organization outperform a larger, less integrated organization?
SPEAKER_00You know, can can they be successful? Sure. Um, you know, again, by defining, you know, kind of defining based on what their goals are and their strategic plan what success is. Uh, you know, from the standpoint of being that small organization, um your risk pool from a lack of diversity is greater and can be impacted, you know, significantly by a slight change in the market. So can you be successful? For some period of time, I think you can be. I think there's uh, you know, what are there, 13,000 organizations in our space out there across the country? And I probably the large majority of them fall within the definition of small. Um, so I think they can be successful for a period of time. I guess the question is, at what point does the evolution, you know, kind of as we started the conversation, almost mandate that versus the and and and the reality is is as organizations feel the pressure of some of the things like performance-based contracting and some of the value. I mean, I know value-based payment, value-based contracting hasn't evolved in the industry the way we might have thought it was 10, 12 years ago. But again, those are skill sets and specialties that are going to require investments that, again, maybe at some point in time as the market continues to evolve, that organizations might start to feel some of those financial pressure into that kind of margin creep. Um, but I do think, you know, I won't sit here today and say a $25 to $50 million provider can't sustain itself for some period of time successfully. But I just think they would have to keep their eye on kind of the evolution of the market. And if it continues the way it's been the last five years, then I think those pressures will be exacerbated.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I think you're running hard on the treadmill longer when you're that small, just to try to keep up. Um, and just to put that into a quantitative way, so the average margin for a nonprofit provider organization is one to three percent, right? Many organizations unfortunately manage to net zero, which is, I think, a catastrophic way to do business, right? You you your tax status is not your business model. I've often said that you've got to make money. But if you think about one to three percent, if you're a one million dollar top line revenue with three group homes, you're a $10 million provider, you're a $20 million provider, a $50 million provider, that's still like one, you know, uh one problem, one uh workman's comp claim, one insurance hike that you didn't plan for away from disaster. If you're $500 million and up, that one to three percent is a significant amount of money that you can really invest in savings, investing uh in the market, investing in people, um, career ladders, all of those things. It's really the economics. It's not about um the margin because that dollar amount is so small. If you're under 100 million, it's almost negligible to what that can do if you have a problem.
SPEAKER_01And Scott, I I'd add to that that it also is about what what is the service that you're providing, right? So you can be successful. Uh there are risks. I think that that everyone has said that very effectively, that you've got maybe, you know, less margin for error, but you're also unable to probably change the service you're providing. Um so whether that service needs to change because there's new technology involved with it, it needs to change because there's less people who are qualified for that. Uh, it needs to change because there's less dollars now associated with it. Lots of lots of reasons. The problem is you've got the one-hit wonder and you've been doing that one hit for a while and you're good at it. Um and as as Rich said, you can be successful for a period of time. What happens when the markets start to pivot? What happens as a waiver provider? You're now hearing about remote support services, and you need to be able to have some sort of technology prowess to do this this new way of doing waiver services that's going to cut maybe 30 to 40 percent of the market of what you normally were doing. Do you have the ability to maneuver in that? Yep. That's that small scale, the large scale, that investment part.
SPEAKER_05So you and I both love music. Yes, uh, Chris, you and I do. And so I think about my mind went to one hit wonder thinking of, you know, we all know examples of of bands that can be some of our favorites, but you know, 20 years ago they were playing stadiums, right? And now they're playing uh high school football fields. You know, it just happens. Tastes change. That's exactly right. Um, Stacy, I think it was you who brought up the board
What Boards Must Ask And Guardrail
SPEAKER_05earlier. So let's make a little pivot here as we start to round out the conversation. Let me let me kind of pitch an example and let's let's let's get into where boards come into play here. So let's say a CEO brings a couple of options to her board, pursue an acquisition of a struggling provider or invest internally in workforce and in systems and operations. What questions would a strong board ask to evaluate those options properly?
SPEAKER_02Well, let me flip it and say where I often see this tension, and there's healthy tension between a board and exec team, and then there's unhealthy tension where there's not alignment. Um, I and I just had this conversation with a client this morning where the board is really the gas pedal or the break when it comes to strategic growth, when it comes to anything in an organization, but that alignment is clear. So the way I look at that, the board would not be having that conversation before the CEO and his or her own executive team, MA team put that through a decision lens process and brought that to the board with here is our recommendations based on each example and what. So you want to talk about mission alignment, you want to talk about strategic fit, um, the financial viability, certainly. You know, there's an organizational readiness question of like, who are we as an organization? Where are we on a readiness scale? Can we absorb this? Do we have the ability to fix an organization that needs a turnaround? Or could we only look at a healthy partnership? So there's got to be that self-awareness in place before you have that conversation. And then most critically, I think what are the risk guardrails? You know, like what's your walkaway threshold as you're going through diligence to be really clear that you're not falling in love with the idea of a deal when it's starting to go south? Um, so having those conversations first with the leadership team and then walking the board through that decision lens. I think that goes back to the why you can't DIY this, kind of having an outside advisor sort of keep those guardrails and help to facilitate those conversations.
SPEAKER_05Stacey, let me follow up on your metaphor about the the brake pedal or the gas pedal in your uh the arc of your career, and you've you're on boards, you've been on boards too. Do boards is the default the brake pedal or the gas pedal most of the time or mini?
SPEAKER_02I think it's the break. It's a great question. And I do. I sit on nonprofit and for-profit boards, and I will tell you on the nonprofit board, I find myself leaning in and having to remind myself, who, you know, is often paid to help navigate board members to say, hey, that's not your role. Sit back. You know, I think we I saw this um kind of example in the sports theme of, you know, the the board is like the owners of the football team. They don't coach and they don't play on the field. And that's the way you have to think of yourself. Like you hire the right people. Your job as a nonprofit board is to hire the leader and to align on those governance guardrails. You don't call the plays and you're certainly not tackling anybody. So you've got to sit in the stand and watch the game unfold.
SPEAKER_05Okay. Chris, what about boards? What should boards of nonprofits here in Ohio, regionally, nationally, what should they be, what should these board members be thinking about in the next six to twelve months?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I you know, I think to to know whether or not your board is in a good place, if they're healthy or not, what they should be thinking about. Um, what comes to mind to me is whether a board or for that matter a leadership team, but but board specifically, is are they wrapping themselves in the symbols of the brand or are they uh f really aware and and embedded in the mission of the brand? And and so when you start talking about coming together and all the different ways that Stacey let us off, whether that's MA or um affiliations or you know, lots and lots of other ways to sort of expand um capacities and resources and things of that nature, um, what can often get caught up is what about who we are? What's gonna change about who we are? And for somebody who's been doing this for over 30 years and have worked for more than one company, what I do is I follow the mission. I follow the impact. That for me as a professional, you want me on board, tell me what we're doing, where's the impact? That's what I get behind. Sure, give me some nice logo where I will beat my drum to boundless all day long. Love the name, think it's great. There's more clever names than others, yeah, all that good stuff. But what gets me as a professional to follow and move forward with an organization is their is their mission. And what's the impact and what's the community? Is the board thinking the same way, or do they get caught up into well, that's a different colored ball than what I'm used to playing with, right? Um, they should be aware how we started, who we're impacting. Does that impact continue? Does that impact get stronger? Is there less risk with those communities because of whatever we're we're trying to pull together here? That's that's what they need to be thinking about, in my opinion. Okay. Rich?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I would actually say um from my standpoint, even to take it a little bit step step back from that, is are are CEOs and leadership teams having the type of conversation today that we're having today? Are they having that with their boards? I I sit on boards in other industries, and you know, one of the questions I have for that is is just that. Like, don't just come in and on a quarterly basis or whatnot and kind of talk to me about kind of the results-based aspect of kind of what your PL is or if your census is down, you know, to kind of use terms for our industry. But talk to me about like where you where your place is and where you sit kind of in the in in the in the in the grand scheme of things. And those are the things from a board standpoint, like I want to understand. I feel like that's part of my both my fiduciary responsibility, my overall responsibility as it relates to that. So I think it's incumbent upon the the leadership to ensure that the the conversation we're having today, that not just the CEOs and the leadership team have that lens, but also their boards have that lens because it allows them to, you know, if you're the the gas break analogy, if maybe if more of that existed, people would maybe just tap on the brakes instead of slamming on them because they'd be more open to the kind of conversations. And, you know, and again, there's there's a million different size and scale of organizations and boards, but I just think from a standpoint of a readiness, a don't just bring this if if if if if if the first time you're having a conversation with your board is because I have this specific opportunity and I think this is the right opportunity, then that's not going to have a positive reaction. So I think it's A, having the conversation about what your strategic vision is for consolidation or not. And then within the framework of that, making sure that part of your discussions in your board meeting is the state of the state and where the industry is going and what that means for you specifically as an organization. And I think that makes a healthier conversation at the point in time you get to the kind of level of what you described in your question.
SPEAKER_05Stacey, did you want to follow up? I noticed you were nodding, but yeah, jump in if you want to.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, I just and and you can um decide to leave this in or leave this out. But I will say that related to the boards, we have over the last two years had such intense issues brought our way from our clients that and such uh frequent requests for help in navigating those dynamics that we created a guide to boards and it's a free download on our website. We don't follow up, it's on a marketing piece, like just go to our website and download it. It's about 13 pages and it's designed to hand to your board to say, here's best practice. And it's rooted in the National Association of Corporate Directors principles, um, other things, board source that we went to for best practice, but it's about navigating that relationship. It's about the guardrails, and it's a tool to help both the CEO and the board work together with a little more harmony and to Rich's point, maybe tap the brakes now and then. But the slamming on the brakes is not good for anyone.
A Practical Tool For Board Alignment
SPEAKER_05Do you have anything else, Chris? Okay. Folks, this has been a great conversation. We're going to get to our mission moment in just a little bit. But again, let me thank all three of you: Stacy, Chris, Rich. Thank you for being here. As we've heard, 2026, it's not just another year in the MA cycle. This is an inflection point. Leaders, boards out there have to be ready, have to be nimble, and have to be prepared. Again, thanks to all three of you. It's good seeing you again.
SPEAKER_02Thanks for having us.
SPEAKER_01Good seeing you guys for having us.
SPEAKER_05Thanks, Biden. You guys are rock stars. You're gonna make my editing job very easy. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. And you can take out that. I wanted to give you pause to take it out, but it is a great guide if anyone wants it.
SPEAKER_05I'm gonna I'm gonna just stitch that right together. That'll be uh that'll be an easy edit for me, Stacey. So thanks. All right, all right. Well, I see my new friend Jill is on the call, so I'm gonna record the mission moment. But if if you guys want to hop off, you're welcome to.
SPEAKER_01Thanks again. Thanks. Good seeing you all. Thanks, everybody.
SPEAKER_00Good afternoon. Bye bye.
SPEAKER_05Bye-bye.
unknownMove it out of your hair.
SPEAKER_03All right. That was really good.
SPEAKER_05That was another good one, Karen.
SPEAKER_03Yes, it was. I'm very happy with that.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's really sorry.
SPEAKER_03My um Zoom cannot find my camera right now, but Jill, I usually keep my camera off while people are recording so they can kind of concentrate.
SPEAKER_04Oh, that makes sense. I like to give people a lot of like affirming facial expressions when I'm talking with them. So I figured I would get in the way until time to record.
SPEAKER_05Hey, Jill, can uh would you count to 10 for me? I just want to make sure you're coming in nice and clear through our audio board.
SPEAKER_04One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, and ten.
SPEAKER_05Awesome. And Jill, what's your title?
SPEAKER_04I am Alice's lead clinical psychologist.
SPEAKER_05Okay, and what's your mission moment about? I may just like kind of toss it to you open-ended, but I just wanted to know a little bit of it in case I want to kind of customize the toss to you.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I uh I have a little blurb written out um just what I do at Boundless and the services that I provide and how I I really gosh, I just have so much satisfaction and joy that comes from answering questions for the people in our community and uh helping them figure out how to go from surviving to thriving.
SPEAKER_05I love that. Uh okay, all right. I'm gonna come come right to you here, and and again, same applies. If you start and you're like, oh, I want to do over, you can do over, so no worries. Um okay, so let me get in my mind. So let's see, all three guests. I think the guest. Um, here we go. Coming to you, Jill, in just a sec here. Again, my thanks to all three of our guests today.
Mission Moment: Making Challenges Manageable
SPEAKER_05As promised, it is time for our mission moment. So, Jill, I'll send it to you. Hi there.
SPEAKER_04Hi. Um, my name is Jill Brenneman and I am Boundless's testing psychologist. Um, I also provide therapy and parent training services. I really enjoy being a part of the behavioral health area of Boundless. When I'm working with a family on a psychological evaluation, we're really trying to answer a question for the individual. So, what's going on with them? What do they need to feel supported to succeed? How can their family and the people who care for them understand them and support them better? And again, I really enjoy helping and being a part of answering those questions for folks. As important as it is to answer those diagnostic questions, I also really get a lot of satisfaction out of supporting individuals and their families as they move forward from those initial days and work towards going from surviving to thriving. There's this Mr. Rogers quote anything that is human is mentionable, and anything that is mentionable can be more manageable. And I really feel like I'm in the business of making challenges mentionable and manageable for the people we serve. Recording stopped.
SPEAKER_05Oh, yeah, I think that's I think that was okay. So, Jill, if you need to continue, I'll I'll of course edit that out. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04It means a lot to me to see a child's social skills and self-esteem improve, to see parents feel like they can manage disruptive behavior and encourage their child to express themselves without that behavior, and to have individuals tell me, wow, that really sounds like me when I explain their diagnoses and what that means for them. So I am just so glad to be a part of Boundless and help individuals realize their boundless potential.
SPEAKER_05Well, and I want to let our audience know, I'm looking at Jill via Zoom, and folks, I can tell you she was smiling the whole time that she was talking about her mission moment here. So uh I'm sure that smile, Jill, when and and of course your expertise. Um, but they're they're both infectious and so engaging. And so thanks for providing this episode's mission moment.
SPEAKER_04Thank
Final Thanks And Closing
SPEAKER_04you.
SPEAKER_05That's going to do it for this episode. Again, thanks to all of our guests and thanks to you for listening. This is the Nonprofit Leader's Guide podcast brought to you by Bountless.